Does the C-Suite Still Not Understand Public Relations?

Doug Downs (00:03):

A couple of months ago, the CEO of Kellogg's, the Breakfast cereal company, Gary Pilnik, offered his suggestion for families struggling to put food on the table right now. "Hey, maybe you should have cereal for breakfast. Much more affordable and only a dollar per bowl." Okay, I'm paraphrasing and I'm adding a bit of a sarcastic tone, but that's basically what he said. The interviewer asked him to clarify saying, you know, that might not land the right way right now. Pelnick doubled down. "Oh, no, no, no. It's landing really well right now." No, it wasn't. Many news headlines compared his comments to let them eat cake with the guardian in the uk splashing the headline, Let Them Eat Flakes. Another example a few weeks ago, Kirk Tanner, the CEO of Wendy's burgers and fries, Wendy's, he ad-libbed something in an analyst call, which is really no different from a media interview about surge pricing, huh? Wendy's customers were indignant about the idea of a baconator jumping in price just because it's lunchtime. Wendy's quickly clarified what he meant was dynamic discounts, not dynamic surges in price. Why is it senior executives often are still not listening to their PR advisors? What don't they get about the potential damage from inconsistent messaging, lost opportunities, or internal morale today on stories and strategies finding A CEO who understands and believes in the value of PR? Is it a lack of understanding about what we do or is what we're doing yielding a lack of understanding?

(02:01):

My name is Doug Downs. My guest this week is Michelle Garrett, joining today from Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Michelle.

Michelle Garrett (02:08):

Hey, Doug. How are you?

Doug Downs (02:09):

I'm good. You've been in, I was looking at the weather app. You've been in kind of a little heat wave. What's going on? How are you staying? Cool.

Michelle Garrett (02:16):

I don't go outside a lot during the day I've been here. We're going to wave, but next week is going to be even hotter, I think. So we're getting some pretty toasty temperatures.

Doug Downs (02:31):

I know that feeling. Just sort of look out the window during a little break. Oh yeah, there's weather out there. You sort of forget for a bit, Michelle. You are a freelance PR consultant and writer. Some of your focus includes small businesses, startups, marketing agencies and corporations around the world that you've been ranked in The top three on the PR measurement X influencer index. Can I still call it X? You're plugged into X in Twitter. That's the name, right? X,

Michelle Garrett (03:00):

I call it Twitter, but I mean technically it's X,

Doug Downs (03:04):

Right? That Influencer Index was published by Commetric, and you have been named one of the most influential tech PR professionals in the world by Propel. You also have a new book out called B2B PR that gets results. Let's talk about that as we wrap up the episode here and fourth time on stories and strategies. So obviously you're a friend. We outlined those two examples from Kellogg's and Wendy's off the top. Let me ask you, I mean, just point blank, do some execs just not get what we do? Do they not respect what we do or do they just ignore what we do? Do they think they're so superior? They don't need to take counsel because they talk every day, all day, so they don't need somebody to help them with their talking. What's going on here?

Michelle Garrett (03:57):

It's something really, and you see it repeatedly, right? It happens again and again and again. I think sometimes they get caught off guard maybe with a question, and although they should know how to answer their question, they're a little out of touch. In the case of the Kellogg's example and he doubled down on it, he did that part. I don't understand. I could see maybe getting a question that you weren't expecting and being like, wow, okay, here's my answer just off the cuff, and then you should probably know better even in the first instance, but then to double down on it. Yikes.

Doug Downs (04:35):

And obviously we do need senior execs, whether it's the CEO or the chair of the board, just someone in that we need them to be able to speak well, they add personality to the brand, and more and more younger audiences are quite frankly demanding that the leaders step forward. They want to know what the brand stands for before they're going to patronize the brand at all. I guess how important is it for execs to take that to heart?

Michelle Garrett (05:03):

I think that's a very interesting and important point to make because I have kids, I have a teenager and a young 20 something, and yeah, they are very anti-capitalism, and anytime they can use somebody makes a mistake like this, everybody jumps on it. I mean, that generation,

Doug Downs (05:26):

Like a proof point is

Michelle Garrett (05:28):

Ready to just tear him apart. And so I think this is going to play a role moving forward and maybe we'll see, I don't know. Maybe they'll be hiring people who are more in tune with that kind of thinking and to coach them and help them along with their messages. And I think they all just need media training. Even a refresher occasionally for experienced folks is not a idea.

Doug Downs (05:58):

That's a neat point. I do media training and presentation coaching, and I mean, not to oversimplify it, but the heart of it is to be disciplined in how you choose to communicate and when you choose to communicate. And it's not that you can't go down some of these ad-lib paths. You can show some personality.

(06:20):

I'll use a football analogy. Columbus football's a big deal in Ohio, right? Buckeyes. You can ad-lib during the play, but that ad-lib is almost well rehearsed. The line still needs to know which way the quarterback is going. How do we as comms people, particularly those of us who do work in that field where we're coaching executives, how do we get them to adhere to what we're saying? So many times I've had an executive actor a workshop, oh yeah, that's great. I love it. It's great. And I'll check in with them six months later as they do, and it's like all of it's gone. They didn't put any of it into practice. Maybe some of the onus is on us to coach a little better.

Michelle Garrett (07:04):

Yeah, I mean, I think even for experienced spokespeople, it doesn't hurt to have, even just to review key messages and maybe to develop specific key messages for a specific interview, especially if it's with a high level media outlet, for example. If you're on a stage that a lot of people are paying attention to, it's going to matter that you're prepared. And by prepared, I don't mean you've done a lot of speaking in public. It means knowing what you're going to say in this particular instance to this audience. And that is, I don't think you can ever over prepare, but maybe ego does play into it sometimes.

Doug Downs (07:44):

Yeah, honestly, I mean, I've long felt one of the hurdles for senior leaders is their own confident, you can call it ego. I'll use the positive frame confidence, that confidence is part of how they got there. That's part of how they got to the top. They have a degree of self-confidence, a degree. If any of them have absolute and full confidence, I'm really nervous about them because they should have a little bit. That's pulling them back. And often the advice we provide as comms advisors is counter to intuition, and that's really, that's where we make our money. That's where we provide our value as is when we can say, okay, that would seem the obvious place to go, but here's why I don't want you to do that. Right. Do you see that coming as well, that there's a degree of overconfidence and they ignore those moments in time when we're saying this is the counterintuitive advice advice that I have?

Michelle Garrett (08:40):

I think absolutely it happens, right? And I think probably some comms teams just are tearing their hair out on any given day because it's like, wow, we did the best we could and here's what we ended up with, and now we got to clean up the mess. And that's the thing I think that some of the executives don't remember is that when they're out there putting their foot in their mouth, for example, then we are back here trying to try to sweep up the mess behind them. And that's not really a good look. It would be better to probably say less. I think that's another thing. They get too comfortable. They're just shooting from the hip. They like to hear themselves talk. I'm whispering that because I don't want it to sound like it probably sounds, but in some cases it's true.

Doug Downs (09:27):

I think absolutely. I think they hit the point. There's this dunning Kruger curve, and the idea psychological term is that at the top of the curve, there are some people who are extremely confident and dumb as an orange. And then as you get smarter, you start to lose confidence, your ability, your technical ability goes up, but you start suffering. It's not fomo. What's the term for when you start realizing you don't know everything? And

Michelle Garrett (09:57):

Imposter syndrome,

Doug Downs (09:58):

Yes. You start developing your imposter syndrome and you get to the very bottom, and it's when you start coming back around and you start realizing, no, no, no, no, I do have some knowledge and it's okay for me to express it. And then ultimately, we do have some extremely intelligent people who aren't afraid to share, and I'm glad they do share kind of like that. The average executive, I don't know if they're on the left side or the right side of that curve, I suppose they're not dumb as an orange, but they can sure come across that way if they're not paying attention to communication strategies.

Michelle Garrett (10:36):

Sure. I think the best c-suite executives understand that they should be kind of working together with their comms team. And that's what I wrote about that in my newsletter the other day, about how they really need to be more in sync with their comms team or their lead communication person, chief communication officer, whatever it might be at a particular company. And I hope, and I can see to some degree that those folks are getting pulled in more often and that the executives are paying a little bit more attention to what they bring to the table. And I think that's a very positive development.

Doug Downs (11:21):

And in your newsletter, which by the way, if you haven't signed up for Michelle's newsletter, it's a good one. Do you have a good example of a CEO Understanding communication strategies? The Land O'Lakes example?

Michelle Garrett (11:34):

Yes, that I heard their chief communication officer speak at Content Marketing World, and she talked all about PR as part of their either content program, their content PR to me go together hand in hand. And I talk about that frequently. But in this case, the CEO just played a huge role in it. And I think anytime you have that in your toolbox, you are way ahead of the game because if the CEO, the C-suite is on board with what you're doing, it's going to add so much to your efforts. If they're a champion of pr, if they're willing to do what you ask, it just makes a huge difference. And Land O'Lakes is a great example of that. They ended up on 60 Minutes, they were all over the place, and it was really because the CEO and the chief communication officer worked together to get, she was more than willing to just do whatever it took to get out there on behalf of the company.

Doug Downs (12:32):

Let me ask you this, because I'm still trying to nail down what is it that stops us as the comms leaders from getting that point across at that head table? I've also had a thought that those who are in the role where they can get close to the CEO, so the VP of Comms or whatever the role title is, sometimes they're afraid to counter anything the CEO says, and they almost see their job as, I need to buddy up to them to become their right hand and then filter it down to the rest of my staff. Do you see the same?

Michelle Garrett (13:10):

I think it does happen. I really think in the best case scenario, you want someone in that role who is going to push back. And I see that. I mean, certainly I do work with some CEOs at my client's companies. However, I think that PR in general needs to push back a little bit more and not just be the yes department, the yes person, the YES team, whatever it is. I think that we need to have a little bit more confidence in our ability to understand perhaps what they don't, because we are the eyes and ears. We're out there watching, listening, looking at the trends, and hopefully just paying attention to what's going on to a point where we could advise them and give them some perspective that they may not otherwise have.

Doug Downs (13:57):

And in a lot of ways, there is no other department that has the 360 on the company. Every other department is focused on its deliverables. We're the only ones that have that full vision,

Michelle Garrett (14:11):

And they would be really smart to remember that. And again, I think on the PR side of things, we do need to have a little bit more confidence in pushing back. And if we are not in a place where we can do that, I think that's an indication that that might not be a good place to be. Or we might need to slowly, gently work our way in that direction so that we can, because if you're just a yes person in pr, I don't know how much value you're really bringing to the table.

Doug Downs (14:42):

Perfect. You've got a new book out, B2B PR that gets results. Tell me about the book.

Michelle Garrett (14:50):

I do have a new book. I'm so excited. I mean, I have been writing forever. Alright, so I've been writing for my blog. I've been writing contributed articles for other publications. Of course I've talked to death about pr and I'm very passionate about it. And this is all kind of the culmination of those efforts over the years, and I just couldn't be more thrilled to have it out

Doug Downs (15:13):

There. Okay. Give me a couple little snippets, a couple of value nuggets that are from it, either advice or stories that are in the book, A proud moment.

Michelle Garrett (15:22):

Oh, well, I mean one of my favorite chapters is really the first chapter where I kind of talk about the problem that we have in the industry, in the public relations industry where we have clients that, again, I think it comes back to the being a yes person. They bring an agency in. The agency just tells 'em what they want to hear. The agency pulls a list from a media database, spams out thousands of pitches to reporters who are just like, please stop spamming us. And this whole thing is just a cycle that goes back and forth and the client thinks, we didn't get anything out of this. PR doesn't work. They hire another agency, the process starts over again. So I, that's how the book opens. And to me, that is something that we just need to be talking about more.

Doug Downs (16:09):

If I'm a senior exec, how do I know a good agency from a bad one?

Michelle Garrett (16:14):

That's a good question too. I mean, I think you want to know who's going to be working on your account on a day-to-day basis. Of course, they're going to bring in the big guns to pitch you and try to sell you, but then if they assign the junior folks, and there's nothing wrong with being in junior PR persona, don't get me wrong, but you do want to know who's doing the work, because that's ultimately where the rubber will meet the road. And I'm going to tell you right now, the vice president that pitched you was not going to be the one that's actually working on your business and trying to get the coverage and trying to get the results. And I worked in an agency before I went out on my own. They're not all the same. But there are a lot of practices at agencies that sometimes are a little questionable maybe.

Doug Downs (17:01):

So that goes to, if you have a choice between a big agency, a medium agency, and a small PR person who's hung up a shingle, maybe the medium and the experienced shingle is the way to go.

Michelle Garrett (17:16):

It could be. And it does depend on the size of your company and the industry and all of those things. The size of your internal team. I often work with companies that have a one person marketing department. They don't have anybody dedicated to PR at all. And so I can help out doing writing, doing media relations and coaching executives and all those things. But if you're a big, big company, you probably meet, I remember when I was in Silicon Valley working in an agency, sometimes the companies would work with more than one agency and they'd have multiple teams from the, like Microsoft has, I dunno how many agencies I work with, but it depends on the size of the company. My book is really written with smaller companies. I usually say less than 500 or so employees. That's kind of where I'm coming from. I think a lot of these things, including the technology, can be a little bit of overkill for these smaller businesses that kind of just need some media coverage. They need some positioning, they need some thought leadership, those kinds of things. And that's something that a consultant or a smaller agency could help you

Doug Downs (18:16):

Do. And just need to see how the strategies they've built for their business. There are marketing strategies that align with those. You're not too small.

Michelle Garrett (18:25):

And I think that's really important too. And also they don't know that they have interesting things to talk about because sometimes I go into my manufacturing clients, for example. I'm like, wow, what does that machine do? And then they'll show me, maybe I'm a nerd, but I think it's really interesting to see how things are made and created. And I think those stories are interesting. And then how their customers are using what they produce as well, the machinery, the equipment, the solutions, whatever it is. I think those stories are really interesting.

Doug Downs (18:53):

Michelle, so good. Thank you for this. Great to see you again. Good to see

Michelle Garrett (18:57):

You, Doug. Thank you so much for having me.

Doug Downs (19:00):

If you'd like to send a message to my guest, Michelle Garrett, we've got her contact information in the show notes, Stories and Strategies is a co-production of JGR Communications and Stories and Strategies, podcasts. If you liked this episode, leave us a rating and possibly a review. Those mean a ton to us. We're also on YouTube and YouTube music full audio episodes, and we publish short video segments as well. Thank you to our producer, Emily Page. Gold Star as always. Lastly, do us a favour forward this episode to one friend. Thanks for listening. I.