Hawk Tuah: Meme Queen – Crypto Scheme. Fame in the Age of Absurdity

Doug Downs (00:06):

It was another warm summer evening in Tennessee last year when Haliey Welch's name was etched into internet infamy. She wasn't on a stage or starring in a blockbuster. No. She was just one of many people approached by a street interviewer, holding a microphone and looking for outrageous sound bites. And Haliey, oh, she delivered.

Street Interviewer (00:29):

What's one move in bed that makes a man go crazy every time?

Haliey Welch (00:32):

Oh, you got to give him that hawk tuah and spit on that thing.

Doug Downs (00:35):

If you watch the video, she's barely paying attention to the interview. She's completely distracted. Looking around at the street crowd, anxious to go do anything else. It didn't matter. Within hours, the video was clipped, shared, and endlessly MeMed people couldn't get enough. By week's end, hawk tuah was the Internet's favorite inside joke and Haliey Welch, its newest star. Now, if this story feels oddly familiar, you might recall an old episode of The Simpsons where Bart Simpson became a sudden sensation for blurting out.

Bart Simpson (01:13):

I didn't do it. I didn't do it.

Doug Downs (01:19):

A simple, silly phrase Iaunched him into stardom. He was on t-shirts, mugs, the talk show circuit. Until as always, the public moved on. Haliey Welch's moment of viral glory seems to have followed the same trajectory for a brief shining period. Everyone was mimicking her infamous phrase, miming, dramatic spits and debating its deeper meaning. I mean, as if there was one, but in this era of the influencer economy, it wasn't long before someone whispered to her, Haliey, you need to monetize this, and that's when things got interesting. Haliey launched her podcast Talk Tuah. Thanks to Jake Paul's Better media company. It attracted some big name guests and at its peak reached the top five global podcasts on Spotify. Then more recently came the Talk Tuah coin, a cryptocurrency pitched to her growing fandom, the self-styled Tuah troop.

(02:17):

She sold it as more than a financial product. This was a movement, a community invest in. Hawk Tuah, she said, and you are investing in us. And people bought into it for a while. The coin soared just like her viral moment. Haliey wasn't just an internet joke, she was a business mogul. Suddenly or so. It seemed. Rather quickly, the coin's value plummeted and reports began trickling in. Investors had lost their life. Savings lawsuits were filed. Haliey Welsh who'd once been the Internet's darling, now found herself at the center of a financial scandal. And just like that, she vanished. No more interviews, no posts, not even a whisper of

Haliey Welch (03:00):

Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang.

Doug Downs (03:01):

Now, here's where we ask the hard questions. Is Haliey Welch just another viral star out of her depth? Or does this story reveal something deeper about us, about the way we create and consume fame? In a world where absurdity is currency and memes can build fortunes, maybe Haliey isn't the problem, or even just a symptom. Maybe Haliey is a mirror today on stories and strategies. Bart Simpson once learned that a catchphrase wasn't enough to sustain a career. Haliey Welch might be learning now that

Haliey Welch (03:35):

Hawk Tuah

Doug Downs (03:35):

might not be enough to sustain hers either.

(03:52):

My name is Doug Downs. My guest this week is Jason Cercone, joining today from Pittsburgh, PA Hey Jason.

Jason Cercone (03:58):

Hey, Doug. What's going on, my friend?

Doug Downs (04:00):

Not much. I have been to Pittsburgh long, long time ago. I liked it. I dunno what kind of trees those are that you've got, but Pennsylvania captures the imagination on the drive down from Ontario. I thought it was beautiful. How are things today?

Jason Cercone (04:15):

Things are great. It's a little snowy here, so the trees are bare of leaves, but they look beautiful with the snow coating the limbs. That's one of my favorite sites when I look out the window. I don't know if I'm nerdy like that, but I love the snow as it rests on the tree limbs.

Doug Downs (04:29):

No doubt. I love that too. Jason, you're the founder and chief content creator at Bomb Track Media, helping brands and professionals leverage podcasting with confidence.

Jason Cercone (04:39):

Yes, sir.

Doug Downs (04:39):

And you host your own podcast. Let's blow this up.

Jason Cercone (04:42):

Yes,

Doug Downs (04:42):

Relate to that in the show. Let's start with Welch's rise to fame. She said something. Okay. Kind of funny, kind of stupid, kind of vulgar in a streeter interview. It lit up on social media. I will never understand how she somehow turned that into a massive podcast that ranked in the top five overall on Spotify at one point. With more than 200,000 subscribers, you and I would kill for our podcast clients to be able to do that for them.

Jason Cercone (05:14):

100%.

Doug Downs (05:16):

What does this say about our current, I guess, societal values and the mechanisms that propel people to fame?

Jason Cercone (05:24):

Not a whole lot, least on the positive side of things. That was the first thing I thought about. I know I had said to you too, and there's that thought of, is she a plant? Was this done for a reason? This is how her career was going to get started. But you had told me you can't predict virility like that. So I think it's more of an indictment on the things that we like to consume. Now, of course, we're using the internet, we're using social media to consume a lot of good things and to communicate with others and to share good content. But we all are susceptible to those rabbit holes to where we get sucked into the nonsense. And I think this was just another one of those things, and enough people got sucked into it that they either were sharing it, so, Hey, look at how ridiculous this is. Or, oh my God, I think this is funny and you will too, and it just blew up from there. Craziness. Yeah. In regards to our society consuming content like that, I dunno, we might need to check ourselves on that.

Doug Downs (06:22):

I guess we're societal creatures in some ways. We are lemmings. We kind of follow one another if everybody's talking about that thing. All right. Maybe I'll watch that on Netflix. But you and I as podcast producers and marketing professionals, we try to capitalize on that, right? We are encouraging people talk about this, share this with the, we're always trying to get some form of virility. She had the benefit of having Logan Paul be the executive producer, Logan Paul, with all that money that he made from boxing Mike Tyson was

Jason Cercone (07:00):

Jake Paul.

Doug Downs (07:02):

Jake Paul. Oh, oh yeah, right. Logan's the brother. Right? Incredibly rude brother. Okay, well, the Paul. The Paul family,

Jason Cercone (07:09):

Right? Yeah. Paul got a nice contract from WWE E.

Doug Downs (07:12):

Does it come down to money? Is that what this is? Does money make you go viral? Does money give you a hit podcast that people say they like, does it come down to cash?

Jason Cercone (07:24):

Well, I think that doesn't hurt anything. If you've got the money to put that type of thing out there. If you could invest thousands, even millions of dollars into an ad campaign, of course that's going to get more eyes on what you're doing. But there's been a lot of people that have grown without that type of financial backing. So there's an argument to be made for both sides. This was one of those things that when she did start to take off, it was different in nature, but almost the same. Do you remember the cash me outside girl from several years back? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who went viral from her appearance on Dr. Phil? I looked at her. I remember I said, this is going to go on for maybe 15 minutes and then we'll see her in porn someday. I don't know if that's where she ended up. I want to say, I think I heard in passing that she started an OnlyFans page or an OnlyFans

Doug Downs (08:15):

Site,

Jason Cercone (08:16):

Which fine you do. I am not crapping on what anybody does to make a living in this world, but I felt like Haliey was going to be following a similar path.

(08:28):

What I liked about what she was doing was that in capturing that early virility and that early popularity, she was actually trying to do some good with the money that was coming from the appearances that she was making. I know she was giving money back to animal shelters. I thought that was a breath of fresh air because a lot of people will just take that money and they'll hoard it and they'll just say, oh my God, look at what's happening to me. But she was actually trying to give back, which I think put a positive spin on things. But when you flip it over to the podcast, you and I both know it's all about the content. And you could put millions of dollars behind a crappy podcast, and if the content's not good and it's crappy, that's what people are going to think. So if they hear it, they're going to go, I don't want to listen to this. And I think that's why we saw her dive from, she said she hit number five on the list, and she plummeted in a couple weeks time into the eighties. And I think it was, once you heard it, it was oof. Okay. She

Doug Downs (09:28):

Did manage to attract some A-list guests.

Jason Cercone (09:30):

She

Doug Downs (09:30):

Did.

Jason Cercone (09:31):

I think her biggest was, was it Mark Cuban? I think I saw Mark Cuban on her show, which blows my mind. He's a fellow, but no, just in general. That's crazy. But I think it was, I believe because she got on that, is it Wondery blanking on what network she joined or what part of Paul's, whatever their network is, they're able to attract just because he put a person or a personality on that platform. It's got its built-in audience. So I'm sure that was an attractive thing, or they just owed Mark Cuban a favor or vice versa. And he said, yeah, bill

Doug Downs (10:06):

Mahar was on the show too. Right. Which I actually lost a little respect for him. I like Bill Mahar.

Jason Cercone (10:11):

Yeah, right. No,

Doug Downs (10:13):

He sunk for me because of that. Or

Jason Cercone (10:15):

Was she on his show, or was it the No,

Doug Downs (10:17):

I think he was on hers. He was on hers. They talk to a banner is in the background.

Jason Cercone (10:21):

Oh, okay.

Doug Downs (10:21):

The other thing is they did a video podcast, which is all the discussion right

Jason Cercone (10:26):

Now. That's where her famous what wet Dream tomato for the Jay-Z song line came from, which was another piece of just silly viral content that was actually funnier than the one that made her famous, in my opinion. But that's just my opinion, and I agree.

Doug Downs (10:39):

I don't want to just crap all over Haliey Welch the person because I, no, not at all. I'd also read some articles that her mental approach to things might be unsettled right now, and I want her to feel a bit ashamed, but not a lot of shame kind of thing. Well,

Jason Cercone (10:55):

I know I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I know with the whole crypto thing, she should have ran as fast as she possibly could from anybody that brought that up.

Doug Downs (11:03):

Let's go into that. So she got a chance to have some fame and fortune that went with it. Then the crypto thing. Boy, that's, and it's just a recipe for disaster, whether or not the majority of us understand launching a cryptocurrency, doing, I guess like an IPO where a certain number of people hold the vast majority of shares propping it up and then dumping it back on the market. And how, boy, that sounds a lot like theft to the lay person like me. What was she thinking there? Overreaching?

Jason Cercone (11:40):

I think so. I think the wrong people got in her ears and just sold her a bill of goods because we look at viral growth in a certain way. We often say, okay, how are you going to follow that up? And she was in the process of building an audience through her podcast and whether that was going to be something that would improve over time. We know as podcasters continue to put in the reps, they get better at what they do, and just naturally it becomes more of an art form to them. She was still in the early stages of that. She had a country charm, though. She does, and I'm sure in the Nashville area or Knoxville, I know she's from Tennessee in that world, she's probably a media darling.

Doug Downs (12:21):

Apple pie. Yeah.

Jason Cercone (12:22):

Yeah. Everybody's diving into what she has to say, but I think perhaps listening to the wrong people, and I don't know who the people were that said, this is a good idea, you should run with it. It hit the fast forward button to a point where she didn't understand it, but felt like, okay, I've got the fame and I can make a quick buck here. Let's run with this not fully knowing what goes into, and I am no expert on crypto at all, so I can't speak to that with intelligence. I just know what I see. The people that jumped in on that, Ooh, tighten those screws because you got one loose.

Doug Downs (12:57):

So let's dissect it a bit further. The transformation of internet memes into personal brands. That's exactly what we saw with Welch. How is that affecting the traditional understanding of celebrity and influence? And I can't help but think of the most recent US election where I'm not saying it went anti celebrity, but certainly there's an undertone of, Hey, celebrity, I don't care what you think. Not those celebrities. Anyway,

Jason Cercone (13:29):

Yeah, that was a big thing this year that I had never seen. And I'm sure it's always been to some degree part of it, but I think just with all of the different platforms that we have at our disposal, this all gets amplified. But I know there's a very popular comedian that I follow named Nicole Arbor who pointed out, I was offered X amount of dollars to show my support for Kamala Harris, but that's not who I want to support. So she declined the offer, and I have to believe there were a lot of celebrities that did the same,

Street Interviewer (14:02):

But

Jason Cercone (14:03):

Maybe the biggest Taylor Swift through all of her allegiance behind Kamala Harris, and it still wasn't enough. So I think a lot of people were looking at that saying, okay, celebrities may feel one thing, but I've got my own beliefs and I've got two sets of or two eyes. I can see what's happening in front of me, and if I feel a certain way, I can't be influenced by this comedian or this celebrity or this musician. I have to go with my gut.

Doug Downs (14:31):

But now we have Elon Musk who's a celebrity, but Trump, I guess themselves have a degree of celebrity, and they're certainly trying to pump that card, right? Sure. So we still are attracted to celebrity, but we seem to be changing the kind of celebrity that we want to follow.

Jason Cercone (14:52):

Yeah. Well, and I think even with the rise of social media came a change of how we look at celebrities in general. There's a lot of, I mean, you don't have to go through the traditional channels of reaching fame because you have a device in your pocket that allows you to film to the world, and that's going to give you an outlet to where if the right people see you, you have an opportunity to catch fire. And a lot of people have grown specifically through that network and through those means. So we're looking at celebrities completely different. Like Robert De Niro I know is a very outspoken celebrity, at least from the old school thought process of celebrities. But now you've got all these people that are, I mean, I'm sure your social media feed was exactly the same throughout the election leading up to it. That's all you saw. And it was everybody became a political pundit. I'm like, this isn't changing my thought process at all, because I'm just wondering who recruited you? Was it Fox News? Was it CNN? Yeah. Because you're not qualified for this.

Doug Downs (15:53):

Do You walk with me every day? Because Robert De Niro does not.

Jason Cercone (15:57):

No,

Doug Downs (15:57):

Neither does George Cooney. Neither does Julia Roberts. They don't walk my walk. Okay. So Haliey Welch became an influencer, and you, and I think we agree, it's kind of a shame she did, but okay, she became an influencer. Is there influencer responsibility? You mentioned the comedian who was offered, you had a chance to cash on supporting Kamala Harris, but followed the heart and didn't do that. Where does influencer responsibility come in here?

Jason Cercone (16:30):

I think it comes down to not breaking your own morals. And if you are going to go against what you truly believe just for the quick payday, that's probably going to catch up to you eventually. And it's going to hurt that influencer status that you've built, because eventually people can see through you if you're lying, if you're not being truthful, if you're not being authentic, people eventually are going to be able to say, wait a minute, I'm catching you in your own web of lies because you used to say this and now you're over here saying this. And that's only exacerbated because we now have all of these networks on which we can find a person. One of the big things I said, I think it was 2016, I said, running for president right now has to be next to impossible just because of the 24 hour news cycle on top of the social media

Doug Downs (17:17):

Cycles. Yeah.

Jason Cercone (17:19):

Yeah. It's crazy.

Doug Downs (17:20):

Okay. And then so what do you think about the sustainability of meme based fame? Someone with a catchphrase or a clever meme, something that catches our eye. I think of it as newspaper catching on fire. And sure, I might light a newspaper on fire in my fireplace, but boy, I better have some big dry logs and some twigs in there to sustain the fire. Are we changing though? Is mean based fame something that can be sustained because you do get that early jump?

Jason Cercone (17:56):

I think it can be if you do it the right way and then you continue to follow up on it, you take a wicked right turn and just go from spitting on an organ to I've got a podcast to here's my mean coin in about what a two or three month span? That's a lot. And that can really, like I said before, it's like fast forwarding the whole jump to fame and fortune process. I think it can work, and it have to look at the grand scheme of the world we live in. And we would say everybody gets their 15 minutes. I think you could say that 15 minutes maybe has become 20 now because we have so much more to connect with others and so many more ways of connecting with others. But in the grand scheme of things, it's all about what you're putting in front of people. Is it true to you? Is it true to the message that you want to bring to the world? And the thing that I think about a lot is legacy. And looking back and down the road years and years from now, would Haliey Welch look back on what she's done and say, I'm proud of this. I'm proud of what I've left behind as I float away from this mortal coil.

(19:12):

And that's the thing, I don't know. I can't answer that question for her. I would have to

Doug Downs (19:15):

Think only she can.

Jason Cercone (19:15):

Yeah, right. And only you can for yourself and me, for myself, we can only look at what we are doing and what we're producing. And that's why I am a believer in creating content that is true to you and true to your message because it does create a legacy. And with the internet being written in ink, when you look back on things down the road at the end of your life, are you proud of what you've left behind for the rest of the world to consume?

Doug Downs (19:42):

You got a podcast, let's blow this up. I love the

Jason Cercone (19:45):

Excitement in which you talk about the show, Doug.

Doug Downs (19:48):

Well, the inflection. Yeah. Well, it's a beautiful name. Hailey Welch. She blew it up. Blew it up. Good. Got famous and then blew it up. Blew it up

Jason Cercone (19:56):

Bad. Yeah.

Doug Downs (19:57):

What do you do on your podcast? And what is, let's blow this up.

Jason Cercone (20:00):

The name was a natural fit with Bomb Track Media. When I came up with Bomb Track Media, it was like three weeks later, I said, oh, my podcast should be called. Let's Blow this up.

(20:09):

And I felt it all tied together perfectly. But the idea when I did the first season of Let's Blow This up, was not so much to talk about podcasting. It was more to talk about brand growth. And I had assembled some guests that had different outlooks and different perspectives on how to grow their business, and I wanted to capture all that. And now as I'm preparing for season three to go live February of 2025, it's going to, no pun intended, blow up in regards to the podcast talk. I've got three different formats. It's going to be three episodes a week, the live stream, a solo episode, and then I've assembled what I'm calling a co-host collective. And it's going to be a group of us that are going to dig into some maybe controversial topics, but the goal is kind of like what Haliey Welsh is doing. And like everybody else, we're trying to find things that are going to grab people's attention, topics within podcasting that others might be talking about. But we want to really crank the volume up to 12 and really go to town with it. So I encourage everybody, check out what's there. Season one and two are active now, and season three will be in your face in a few weeks from now as we sit and talk.

Doug Downs (21:17):

And at some point, I get to be a guest on this up. And Doug is going to

Jason Cercone (21:20):

Be a part of

Doug Downs (21:21):

Season Season three? Yes, sir. Awesome. Really appreciate your time today, Jason.

Jason Cercone (21:26):

Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.

Doug Downs (21:28):

In our previous episode, our guest, Carl Ney of campus multimedia, he left a question for you.

Karl Mawhinney (21:35):

My question ties back to what we do in that schools. Was there a memorable moment and or teacher in your early school days, either elementary, middle, or high school, high school, that has a story that has stayed with you or someone that's impacted you in your now professional career or adult life?

Jason Cercone (21:52):

Well, I have to cheat a little because I know that yes, I had some teachers growing up, obviously, that they played an influence. I will say I had one, Mr. Brown, he made a comment that stuck with me to this day. He talked about he was a chemistry teacher, and he knew that we weren't going to all be chemists. And a lot of people would always say, why do we need to learn this? Why do we need to do this? And he was very frank and said, it's not about learning the concepts of chemistry, it's about learning how to meet deadlines and doing the work that's expected of you.

(22:27):

And that stuck with me to this day because it's something I pass on to my daughter too. You may not like what you're doing, but there are responsibilities and things that are expected of you. You have to follow through. You have to do your part. So I would say from an influential standpoint, that was one person, at least in regards to teachers, but I can't look much further than my home and my mom and dad in regards to influence, in regards to work ethic. They were both hardworking people that instilled that in me and helped me understand the power of responsibility at an early age. And I can't think of anybody that I would look beyond in regards to influence and being a hero and being someone that's gotten me to where I am today.

Doug Downs (23:12):

Here's to Mr. Brown, and here's to the Cercone's. Right? Yes, sir. Good leadership. Okay. Your turn. What question would you like to leave behind for the next guest? This

Jason Cercone (23:18):

Seems a little basic, but it's one that I always love to ask because it always provides a very interesting answer. If you could have a cup of coffee or an adult beverage with anyone from the history of the world, alive or dead, who would it be and why? Oh, wow. And I love to ask that question because some people go with family, somebody that they've lost, that they'd love to reconnect with, which I think of answer that question I have too. One would be my grandfather, who was a very influential person in my life, or Andre the giant, Andre the giant, because Andre the giant could drink a hundred some beers in a sitting. I'd love to, I know I can't do that, but I'd love to sit with him and at least watch that and pick the man's brain. So it could go either way, but I love that question because it provides a diverse set of answers. So if

Doug Downs (24:09):

We're allowed to pick two, I'm actually going to go. One is I'd actually love to meet Muhammad Ali.

Jason Cercone (24:16):

That'd be a good one.

Doug Downs (24:19):

As I get older and really start to wrap my head around who this man was and what he really represented, my respect just grows and grows and grows for him.

Jason Cercone (24:31):

Indeed.

Doug Downs (24:32):

The other is, and this is, I don't know how this is going to sound. I'd love to have coffee with Jesus Christ would potentially answer some questions. Yeah, you could learn a lot from that sitting. Yeah. I assume the language is not a barrier that somehow we'll get over the language issue.

Jason Cercone (24:50):

Well, you've got Google translator now, so you're good. We'll both have it. Yeah. Love this. Thanks, Jason. Thanks, Doug. This is a lot of fun. I appreciate you having me.

Doug Downs (25:00):

Here are the top three things I got from Jason Cercone in this episode. Number one, virality is unpredictable and often reflects societal values. Jason emphasizes that virality cannot be planned with certainty. While influencers and brands can use strategies to maximize exposure, the mechanisms that propel content to fame often stem from unpredictable societal reactions. In Haliey Welch's case, the rise to fame was more about our susceptibility to engaging with nonsense or viral rabbit holes than a deliberate strategy. Number two, authenticity and content quality are crucial for sustained success. Money and promotion can generate initial visibility, but long-term success depends on authentic high quality content. Welch's initial podcast success supported by big names like Jake Paul faltered when the content didn't resonate deeply with audiences leading to a rapid drop in her rankings. And number three, influencer responsibility and legacy, they matter. Compromising authenticity for a quick payday can harm an influencer's credibility.

(26:10):

Jason links this idea to sustainability of meme based fame, arguing that those who succeed long-term focus on building a legacy with content that aligns with their values and resonates with their audience. If you'd like to send a message to my guest, Jason Cercone, we've got his contact information in the show notes. Stories and Strategies is a co-production of JGR Communications and Stories and Strategies podcasts. If you like this episode, leave us a five star rating, possibly a review. We won't go viral, but it helps Check out our YouTube channel. Full episodes on YouTube now. Thank you to our producer Emily Page. And lastly, do us a favor forward this episode to one friend. Thanks again for listening.