Soft Power in Public Relations: Persuasion over Pressure

Doug Downs (00:02):

It began with a game, a deadly game when Squid Game burst onto the global stage in 2021 with its gut-wrenching narrative and poignant critique of inequality. The series didn't just entertain. It captivated over 1.65 billion hour streamed in its first four weeks. The world was mesmerized, but what most didn't realize was that squid game was just the tip of South Korea's cultural iceberg. It wasn't just a Netflix sensation, it was a cultural tidal wave sweeping across continents and captivating audiences with its raw storytelling and poignant social critique. But Squid Game was no accident. It was the product of a deliberate strategy decades in the making. Back in the nineties, someone from the South Korean government saw a presentation that revealed one Hollywood blockbuster Jurassic Park had generated revenue equivalent to one and a half million Hyundai cars. Well, that sparked an idea. South Korea introduced policies to project power, not through armies or arsenals, but through music, movies, dramas, and even digital comics called WebToons.

(01:20):

Call it Soft Power. South Korea's ministry of culture, sports, and tourism pledged billions of Juan to nurture the creators behind these cultural exports. Production studios are getting loans and funding guarantees, aspiring filmmakers and drama producers are being trained and even Studio Cube, home of Squid Game is getting an upgrade with underwater filming facilities that promise the next global blockbuster. In the years that have followed South Korea's cultural exports, now known as Hallu or the Korean wave transformed the nation's image. K Dramas like Winter Sonata found loyal fans across Asia and by the 2010s K-pop groups such as BTS and Black Pink were headlining arenas worldwide. BTS with their transcultural fandom known as Army, topped the billboard charts multiple times and even addressed the United Nations.

(02:24):

Meantime, Black Pink's record breaking music videos proved South Korean pop is here to stay, but this symphony of soft power isn't just about entertainment. South Korea's meteoric rise as a cultural powerhouse has reshaped its economy. In 2021, cultural exports like K-pop films and digital comics brought in $12.4 billion surpassing traditional exports like home appliances and batteries. What makes this achievement remarkable is South Korea's historical context emerging from the devastation of the Korean War. The country became a middle power nation in really just a few decades with the 10th largest economy and cutting edge technological prowess. But what about its challenges? You see, soft power alone isn't enough to address South Korea's geopolitical dilemmas surrounded by powerful neighbours. China, Japan and North Korea. South Korea faces unique pressures, yet cultural influences opened, unexpected doors, smuggled dramas and songs are reportedly challenging. North Korea's propaganda machine sparking quiet resistance among its people. Meantime, cultural exchanges have softened diplomatic tensions, particularly with younger generations in Japan and beyond. By investing in global public goods and leading on international norms, South Korea is positioning itself not just as a cultural leader, but as a pivotal global state from the fictional games of Squid game to the very real games of global influence, South Korea is rewriting the playbook today on stories and strategies. Sometimes power doesn't come through force, sometimes it comes through story.

(04:39):

Hi, name is Doug Downs. My guest this week is Farzana Baduel, joining today from London, specifically that beautiful Kensington area near Hyde Park. Hi Farzana.

Farzana Baduel (04:50):

Hello. Hi, Doug.

Doug Downs (04:52):

Did you go for that daily walk today through Hyde Park strolling amongst the folks and all that?

Farzana Baduel (04:57):

Oh my God. Every morning it's like a religious imperative. I take my lovely dog for a lovely walk in Hyde Park and it's just the highlight of my day.

Doug Downs (05:07):

And is it people doing exactly like you or is it business people trying to get somewhere? What's the mood in Hyde Park in the morning,

Farzana Baduel (05:13):

Do you know? It depends on what time I go. If I go super early, you have the dog walkers and they're quite calm. If I go sort of an hour before work officially starts, then it's usually these really intense joggers running around the park that make me feel inadequate because I'm moving slowly at my leisurely pace with my cockapoo. Yeah,

Doug Downs (05:32):

Awesome. Farzana, you're a specialist in global strategic communications with a focus on positioning organizations and nations. On the international stage, you've worked with 16 governments around the world, including Canada, Ukraine, Spain, Guinea-Conakry, which is in Africa of course. And Qatar. You're an ambassador and resident PR expert for the Oxford Foundry, which is the University of Oxford's Entrepreneurship Centre, a media commentator on public relations on the BBC, Al Jazeera, the Guardian, and Forbes. You are the new president of CIPR, the Chartered Institute of Public Relations, and you host Fuse, the PRCA podcast. Great to meet you and great to have you.

Farzana Baduel (06:16):

Thank you so much for having me.

Doug Downs (06:18):

Okay, so we're talking about soft power. I'll start with a softball question. What is soft power?

Farzana Baduel (06:24):

Well, soft power actually was coined by Joseph Nye and he brought it together because he said that soft power and hard power equals smart power. And soft power is really the world of persuasion. So the world that we operate in is attracting people to your cause as opposed to putting a gun to their head and forcing them to,

Doug Downs (06:45):

Okay, so things like sanctions are going to war, obviously that's hard power.

Farzana Baduel (06:51):

Yes,

Doug Downs (06:51):

Soft power. Give me some examples amongst nations.

Farzana Baduel (06:54):

So I would say for instance, the film industry of the us Hollywood is a form of soft power, culinary persuasion, McDonald's for some and is also if you look at Italian food, that is also a form of soft power restaurants around the world, serving up to a delicious Italian pasta is a form of really bringing Italy and its soft power into our stomachs and persuading us that we like Italy.

Doug Downs (07:23):

Okay, so the world of marketing is soft power in public relations for the most part, it's soft power. Unless my company is like a fully regulated, we're doing whatever we want. I've lived in that world where I have to just explain why my company did what it did. And you don't have any say in that. It's like soft power attached to the hard power action. Give me some examples of campaigns that have used soft power.

Farzana Baduel (07:48):

Yeah, I think the way to look at soft power and hard power is a bit like the carrot and the stick. And some situations require one and others require the other, and sometimes you need a blend of both. And so for instance, typically I would say one aspect of soft power is if you look at history, the CIA allegedly, they were backing an American artist like Jackson Pollock, and they did it behind the scenes. They got an art philanthropist to really host exhibitions of his work around the world because the Americans at the time were worried that they weren't perceived as having the same cultural clout of the Soviet Union. And so that's an example of how governments behind the scenes can actually use the levers of soft power during wartime when hard power clearly was being used between in the Cold War. But soft power was also seen as an important and imperative tool in order to bring those in the Soviet Union to their understanding of theirs is the better culture, the better way forward.

Doug Downs (08:52):

Interesting. And I know another example is in southeast Asia, the beaches of Thailand are phenomenally successful. I saw online Thailand tourism did $40 million. I think it was in 2023. Those were the stats that were available blows away Indonesia and Malaysia collectively huge. Why Thailand are the beaches that much better in Thailand? Because at one point Thailand and Malaysia for example, they connect and then Indonesia is just on the other side of that gulf that's there.

Farzana Baduel (09:26):

It's kind of counterintuitive. I've been to Malaysia and it's absolutely stunning. And the reason why it lags against other countries such as Thailand in terms of tourism is something very offbeat. It's actually to do with food and restaurants,

Doug Downs (09:42):

No. So

Farzana Baduel (09:42):

People will automatically say, oh, well actually it's because Thailand advertise more. But yes, they advertise more because they have the tourism revenue that can sustain such advertising campaigns. But if you wiggle it all the way down, it could come up to something very simple like restaurants, so many of us have been to Thai restaurants, and so when we see going to Thailand in our travel brochure, it's not such a mental jump to then think, well you know what? I've been to a Thai restaurant, I've tried their food, I met the Thai people who run the restaurant. They seem kind of nice. If I'm going to go to Thailand, I feel a sense of familiarity. Whereas with Malaysia, if you haven't ever tried Malaysian food because there isn't a huge plethora of Malaysian restaurants as you have with Thai restaurants, and therefore you don't have the opportunity to meet Malaysians who may be the Malaysian diaspora running their restaurants, you then have never met a Malaysian. Often you have never tasted their food. And then it is quite the mental jump to leap into the unknown and go to Malaysia when actually Thailand, funnily enough, feels familiar because you have gone to the local Thai restaurant down your road. So it's about familiarity and in your mind, psychologically de-risking

Doug Downs (10:51):

Isn't that something? And I know in that Edelman trust barometer every year the most trusted entity is the exact quote is someone just like me. I'm looking for something less foreign or more familiar someone or something that seems to share my values. And if there's a style of restaurants such as a Thai food restaurant and I become familiar with the waiters and waitresses and the hostesses and maybe the owner and the food seems yes, for me it's very spicy. Thai food is yeah, I'm ordering a glass of milk if I'm going to a Thai food restaurant, but it's my way of feeling familiar and comfortable with it and I make choices beautiful my brain, I make choices that I think are completely independent of that experience, and yet they're so interwoven.

Farzana Baduel (11:47):

That's so true. And when you look at the personality model, OCEAN O for openness, humans, we are all on the spectrum. Some are more open than the others. So some who are on the extreme side of openness, they actually like the idea of adventure travel and would want to go to Malaysia precisely because they dunno anything about it. But on the other spectrum, you've got people who actually do, they feel very uncomfortable with the other and going to a restaurant, meeting people from the diaspora, it actually makes it much easier for them to embrace travel to that country.

Doug Downs (12:17):

You brought it up. So what's the rest of that personality spectrum? OCEAN, what's it called? Yeah,

Farzana Baduel (12:21):

Gosh. So it's O four openness, and then C is conscientiousness and then E is extroversion versus introversion. A is agreeableness and then N is sort of neurosis. And so it's an interesting personality because when you analyze humans and we're coming up with common strategies, it's really important to understand the psychology that underpins people and their decision making. And then that will enable you to then connect with people from all spectrums, those who are open and those who aren't because actually those people who aren't open, it's quite logical their position. Because if you look at it from evolutionary biology, whenever we came across somebody that looked a little bit different to us from a different tribe, a different ethnicity, it was often because they were just about to invade your land. And so actually we are so wired to art of ancestry and it's relatively recent in history where races are mixing and cultures are mixing. And back in the day when they were mixing, it was often because one was taking over from the other. And so the openness of personality traits, it really represents that link to our evolutionary biology and that's why the need for familiarity is important.

Doug Downs (13:36):

And as you're talking about hard power and soft power, what's going through my mind is I'm thinking, well, which do I use the most as a person? And I think I tend to default to soft power, but I'm not afraid to go to hard power when I think I need to. So it's refreshing to hear the concept is you need a bit of both. And I can think of people that either have too much hard power or in the case of my wife probably too much soft power where there are points in time where I wish she would kick me in the backside or someone at work that's causing trouble for something like that. What are the key elements of building a soft power strategy for a corporate organization though

Farzana Baduel (14:21):

It always starts with the audience, understanding the audience and understanding what elements would be persuasive to them and then therefore which channels that they would be consuming by. And a lot of people, for instance in corporates, they are beginning to understand that internal communications isn't just sending out newsletters, but it's also the element of employee engagement. So engaging with them, which actually means it's not about one-way communication, it's about two-way communication. Employees want to be heard, they want to be listened to, they want active listening. And so soft power to be used in internal communications and staff engagement is I believe an untapped resource for corporates who are struggling to engage their staff. And especially when so many of us are working remotely, we can't rely upon the water cooler moments of building culture and engagement and shared vision. We really need to utilize soft power in order to bring everybody on the journey with us with a shared vision

Doug Downs (15:22):

That's right until the metaverse comes along, the water cooler is kind of go on or weakened at the very least. If it's a blend of soft power and hard power, then what are the points in time when hard power or control makes sense from a corporate communication strategy? Crisis comms?

Farzana Baduel (15:42):

Yeah, I would say very much crisis because when I get that call on Friday at 3:00 PM it's not the time for me to go into persuasion mode. It's really your back is against the wall. You have to move fast and you have to really pull the levers and press the button super fast because of course nowadays with crisis comms, everything runs across social media. We don't have legacy media as the only form of communications and the immediacy of social media means you've got to move super fast. But what's really important is actually when you think about crisis comms and all of us practitioners who work in this field, it's actually the resilience of the organization and the relational capital that's been built over time through soft power is actually what really does save the day during a moment of crisis is when everyone comes together, everyone works in sync and there is ultimate trust between the various different players when you're coordinating during a crisis.

Doug Downs (16:40):

So that's awesome, but all that soft power that you did, how do I measure it to prove that it had impact after my hard power crisis comms campaign? Because to the CEO, looking at the dashboard, right? Their piece of paper or it's all digital, they're looking at, wow, we did this for crisis comms and we got this result. Yeah, we need to do more of that, right? Sort to default to the male voice For the ceo, it could be any voice

Farzana Baduel (17:16):

With CEOs, what I often say to them is I often say to them, look, you need to have what's called reputational resilience, which in essence is trust with your stakeholders and goodwill because when a crisis happens, when you make a mistake because we're all human, you want to ensure that your company and can move on positively and bounce back fast. Now, if you haven't made any effort with your stakeholders, they dunno who you are, they dunno what you stand for. They haven't seen your consistent walking the talk and ensuring that there's no values. So, and when you do make that mistake, you have an understanding error of your stakeholders as opposed to just being seen through the prism of that one mistake.

Doug Downs (17:59):

I totally get that, but are there any magical ways for me to quantify the value of my soft power campaign? And I get part of that is the outcome of the crisis comms that we had to do, but it's awfully hard to connect those dots if it's quantification.

Farzana Baduel (18:17):

Yeah, it's so hard. And one of the tools that we often use are we do perception audits. So we go to the different stakeholders and we ask them a series of questions about their perceptions of different aspects of the company and its leadership. And what we try and aim to do is to ensure that the perception audits are done regularly throughout the year. So you can start to plot on a graph what impact certain events happen on as well as certain campaigns. If you are running a soft powers stakeholder engagement campaign, you can then chart to see if there's any movement in terms of perception and trust. And so running these perception audits are critical and particularly if you run them continuously as opposed to once a year because then you can't really extract any sort of insight from it. So perception audits I think are definitely important.

(19:10):

Also, the way that you run perception audits, having a third party to run the perception audits because people sometimes feel quite embarrassed speaking directly and honestly, you see that with elections. People sometimes often say that they voted for one candidate when they voted for the other because they barriers to admit to it. You have the same thing with perception audit. So it's really the crafting of perception orders who carries out the perception audits, ideally third parties and have an ensuring that the timing of the perception orders are done in a way that you can extrapolate insight and having it before and after campaigns are incredibly useful.

Doug Downs (19:47):

I want to ask about leadership styles because my sense would be the trend has been toward more soft power leadership styles and away from hard power, which feels like it goes back to the seventies and the eighties, the seventies and sixties because in the eighties when I joined the workforce, there was already this movement toward listen, listen, listen. But when I look at the governments that are being elected around the world, and I won't name any in particular, boy, it sure feels left or right that the campaign style at the very least is hard power. Where are leadership styles going? Are we in a phase where we're starting to shift toward more hard power style?

Farzana Baduel (20:33):

I think it shifts because you have some leadership styles, like you had Jacinda Ardern of New Zealand, and she was very empathy led and she felt as if there was a space for her leadership

(20:46):

And she didn't to revert to sort of very common stereotypes of what it means to be a leader. And then on the other spectrum, you have other political leaders that are considered strong men and there is an appetite for that. And what we are beginning to see is actually instead of a homogenous style of leadership, what we're seeing is authentic leadership as long as it's authentic to the actual person themselves. And so if you have Jacinda Ardern automatically taking on this strong man persona type or you have Trump all of a sudden talking about empathy people, you're going to have cognitive dissonance. So what you're beginning to see with leadership ultimately is authenticity or perceived authenticity that they are being who they are. And I think there is an appetite for a wide array of leadership styles. People just want to know that you are who you say you are, you stand for what you actually say that you stand for, and that's what they're looking for. And I think people can be fairly forgiving about how you are on the spectrum of empathy led versus strong man led as long as you come across as authentic. And that is obviously very different than being authentic.

Doug Downs (21:55):

Absolutely, and I suppose if you're in power, soft power, there's going to be a component of what you're doing. And if you're in opposition, a hard power is probably the stronger component of what you're doing just by the nature of what those two things are. Really appreciate your time today. I enjoyed this.

Farzana Baduel (22:15):

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Doug.

Doug Downs (22:16):

In our previous episode, our guest Jason Cercone of Bomb Track Media, he left a question for you.

Jason Cercone (22:25):

This seems a little basic, but it's one that I always love to ask because it always provides a very interesting answer. If you could have a cup of coffee or an adult beverage with anyone from the history of the world alive or dead, who would it be and why?

Farzana Baduel (22:43):

Here I would say it's my grandfather. He is my maternal grandfather and he died when I was a child, so I didn't get a chance to actually get to know him. But he was incredible. He came from the foothills of the himalays in Kashmir in a mud heart and ventured into the world, and he served in the British army during the time when the British ruled the Indian subcontinent. He then went and became chief of staff of Oman. He did military coups. He was the military advisor of Sharan. He went back when Pakistan then was newly formed in 1947 and launched his own political party. And for me, he was also a strong advocate of female leadership. So really pushed my aunts, my mother education career, and I wish he was alive today. So I keep a picture of him by my desk because I think it reminds me of this multiculturalism and going to other countries and doing business and engaging is nothing new. It's been happening through the ages and it gives me a passion for the work that I do working globally. So I wish I could have a coffee with him and just

(23:58):

Tell him that he is an inspiration to me.

Doug Downs (24:01):

What was his name?

Farzana Baduel (24:02):

He was called Colonel

Doug Downs (24:05):

Here to the Colonel. Your turn for Zana. What question would you like to leave behind for our next guest?

Farzana Baduel (24:12):

I am obsessed with books. I believe books have the power to change the world. And I would like to ask the next guest, what singular book did you read that had the most profound impact on the way that you live your life?

Doug Downs (24:29):

I can answer that for me is a book called Sophie's World. It's by the author Justine Gardner written back in the nineties, and it's a chronological history of philosophers through the dawn of time, so going back pre-Socratic days. But he covers, I believe Justine is a, he covers Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, but then moves on. And the point of each chapter is short. And that's good for my little brain so I can get something about the philosopher. But sometimes I would read a chapter and a philosopher, their theory was blue, blue is the reason for the world, for life, for everything. And I'd close the book that night and I blew. Yeah, and I agree. And then I'd read the next chapter the next night, and the next philosopher completely disagreed. Red. Red is if I didn't close the book that night and think, wow, red, really? I don't want to just ignore blue. I believe so strongly in it the night before, but boy, red is like, so what it opened my eyes to was I'm now someone, I've said this on the podcast, I can vote left or right. It really depends. I'm quite purple. And it's not because I can't make up my mind, it's because I genuinely see the blue and the red and all the colors that are in between. What book was it for you?

Farzana Baduel (25:54):

I would say it was written by a Christian and he was called Norman Vincent Peel. And it's the power of positive thinking and it predated all of this work on manifestation positivity and actualization and neurolinguistic programming. He was a man of God and he understood about the power of prayer. And I'm not a particularly religious person, but I do feel that there is power in prayer. Whether it's a religious prayer is gratitude. I think there is immense power and it puts your mind into a positive mindset. And I do think that you can change your life and change the world around you through the lens that you use in terms of how you see the world. And that could be a positive one or it could be a negative one. And I think positivity is what the world needs and what we need.

Doug Downs (26:49):

I like that, what you said about prayer, and I'm not particularly religious or non-religious, typical fence sitter, but if you ever send me thoughts and prayers, there'll be well-received. I'm nothing wrong with thoughts and prayers. So again, I really appreciate your time today. It's great getting to know you and I love this episode.

Farzana Baduel (27:07):

Thank you. Thank you, Doug.

Doug Downs (27:09):

Here are the top three things I got from Farzana Baduel in this episode about soft power number one, sometimes soft, sometimes hard. Soft power revolves around persuasion rather than coercion or control, it compliments hard power to form smart power. Number two, cultural influence examples. The global reach of Hollywood, the ubiquity of Thai cuisine. In fact, food in general and Cold War era, US backed art campaigns demonstrate how culture fosters familiarity and attraction. And number three, successful use of soft power requires understanding your audience, engaging your employees, and demonstrating authentic leadership to build trust and resilience. If you'd like to send a message to my guest, Farzana Baduel, we've got her contact information in the show notes. Stories and strategies is a co-production of JGR Communications and Stories and Strategies podcast. If you like this episode, please leave us a five star rating, possibly a review if you could. That's a great demonstration of soft power to convince other people that this is a good podcast worth listening to. Thank you as always, to our producer, Emily Page. And lastly, do us a favor forward this episode to one friend. Thanks for listening.