The Role of Marketing and Public Relations in Central Asia: Explained

Doug Downs (00:13):

In the United States, the bald eagle soars. In England, and several other parts of Europe, actually, the lion roars. In Australia, the kangaroo hops and grunts. In India, it's the Royal Bengal Tiger. In China, the giant panda. And in Canada it's the beaver. No, seriously, it is. And in Kazakhstan, snow leopards hold significant cultural importance. There are concerted efforts underway to protect these majestic animals, including conserving their natural habitats, establishing a nature reserve, and creating a rehabilitation centre. There was a poignant incident captured on video in December, 2022. It showed a snow leopard standing fearlessly on the road, despite a massive truck behind it. In Kazakhstan, that video went viral on social media, the so-called ghost of the mountains showing its strength and pride.

(01:51):

Kazakhstan's biggest city Almaty features the snow leopard on its coat of arms, holding an apple tree branch with eight flowers, representing the districts symbolizing a harmonious coexistence. So when a couple months ago, the Coca-Cola company repainted a mural showing a snow leopard into a banner with a girl in traditional Kazakh dress enjoying a Coke. Well, that caused outrage. The public demanded the snow leopard mural be repainted. Coca-Cola issued an apology and revived the snow leopard mural. Apparently not all things go better with a Coke. Grasping local customs and traditional practices needs to be a critical part of public relations and marketing strategies today on stories and strategies, learning the intricacies of central Asian cultures to build successful comms strategies.

(03:07):

My name is Doug Downs Music Off the top, a traditional dombra melody. And the dombra, by the way, is a long neck flute whose history traces back to Kazakhstan, but also to Kyrgyzstan and Western China as well. Just before we get started, I want to thank Nicholas Bruneau, who lives in Cascais, Lisbon, Portugal. Nicholas published a list of podcasts he recommends for social impact communicators on his LinkedIn feed, and he included Stories and Strategies in that list. Nicholas, thank you for that. And I'm glad that you and I were able to connect on LinkedIn. My guest this week is Alexander Likhtman, joining today from Almaty, Kazakhstan. Salem Alexander

Alexander Likhtman (03:48):

Salem, everyone. Hi, Doug

Doug Downs (03:51):

Almaty, where you live. Deep southeast Kazakhstan. So of course, south of Russia, pretty much on the border with Kyrgystan to the south and China to the east. Biggest city in Kazakhstan. Not the capital though. How are things where you are?

Alexander Likhtman (04:08):

Well, it's pretty hot here. It's, it's 37 degrees Celsius, so fine for me.

Doug Downs (04:15):

Ooh, so close to the nineties in Fahrenheit, right?

Alexander Likhtman (04:19):

Yes. Something like this. Something like this. Very, very calm city. Very, I would say energetic city. I love living here. And it's surrounded by mountains. So from everywhere in the city you can see mountains at least in one direction.

Doug Downs (04:36):

So you must get the cool mountain air in the mornings and then it just heats up from there.

Alexander Likhtman (04:40):

No, actually, Almaty is like in a bowl between the mountains. So there is almost never windy. Oh. And it's quite hot, but you can travel by bus like 15 minutes and get to mountains.

Doug Downs (04:54):

That's amazing. Alexander, you have 20 years communications experience. Much of that really connecting with information technology companies, helping to promote them in local and international markets. You founded your first PR agency in Russia in 2012, which developed into a group of companies, eventually including two agencies with different sets of expertise. In 2022, you created the PR agency, IT comms. Correct. With offices in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan specializing in the promotion of international and local IT companies. Clients include Binance, A M D, Logitech, WD Acer, and Phillips. Right. You're also an active speaker in various IT communities and hubs, including Skolkova, IT Park Uzbekistan, and Asana hub. Right. And this area we're identifying as Central Asia focusing on central Asia today. Is it fair to say mainly made up of former Soviet Republics with the exception of Mongolia? Depends on who you're talking to. Is that a pretty fair encapsulation?

Alexander Likhtman (06:03):

It's right. Actually Central Asia is very strange, very strange notion because geographically, Mongolia and west of China also belongs to Central Asia. But I right tend to forget about these territories because they don't, they're not Russian speaking at all and they, they're out of my market. So we work in Kazakhstan, Stan, Uzbekistan, and some Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan, excluding Mongolia.

Doug Downs (06:37):

And not to say that central Asia is all one culture, it's not, it's a mosaic unto itself. And that's part of what we're going to talk about today. So let's start with how business representatives see the value of marketing and public relations in Central Asia to many listening, marketing and PR Two very distinct and different skills, requiring different skill sets, different strategies. I don't disagree. Do business leaders see it that way in Central Asia?

Alexander Likhtman (07:07):

It depends on who you mean by business leaders. Kazakhstani and people from Central Asia and businesses from Central Asia, they're quite far away from pr, government organization and big businesses, large enterprises, they do have some PR efforts and some of them are efficient, some not. But talking about medium and upper, medium sized businesses, normally they are not very much into PR. They're doing a lot of marketing efforts. They're doing a lot of lead generation and performance, performance, digital campaigns, but not too much into reputation, not too much into communications. So myself and my agency, we are mostly aimed to international companies. Those value PR and those trying to bring their requirements and their expertise in PR here when they move to this region.

Doug Downs (08:10):

Okay. And what are the better channels for communications, traditional media? Is it still strong? I know in some areas you have traditional media similar to in the west, but you have traditional media and other areas where it's kind of government controlled or remnants of an oligarchy. Social media. Is that a solid channel? What are the main channels? And speak a bit about stakeholder engagement too, and if that's, that's part of the effort here.

Alexander Likhtman (08:38):

Okay, so if speaking about stakeholder engagement, it's mostly tv, especially for larger organization, especially for government or quasi government organization and TV consumption is still very high. In Kyrgyzstan, it's 76, 76% of population watch TV regularly. And around this number, around this number, also about 70% for Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and older people, they still trust in television more than in social to social media. So if you are a politician or if you are a country scale organization or even a larger scale organization, you have to be presented on tv. Traditional media such as newspapers are still popular, but also for I would say older generation.

Doug Downs (09:44):

And are they buying the newspapers? Are they using websites yet? Are they still buying that physical paper?

Alexander Likhtman (09:49):

Some of them, they have the subscription, so they have newspapers delivered to their homes. Some of them buy, and certainly websites of the traditional medias are also quite popular. But especially about Uzbekistan, telegram, channels of media are more popular and have more audience than the website of the newspaper by itself. So stepping onto the social media thing, social media is I think the major source of information for youngsters. When I say youngsters, it's like up to 30 years I would say. And by the way, important thing is these countries, especially Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, they have a very young population. The average, average age of Uzbekistani is like 26 years old, very young. So I would say it's very, very potential country in terms of the young work workforce. So social media is not something united because they consume information from different platforms like Instagram, which is extremely popular among all the countries here. Telegram is number one, messaging, chat, messaging, app and social media, or it is considered to be social media in Uzbekistan and quite widely, widely available in Kazakhstan. And Kyrgyzstan

Doug Downs (11:24):

For me, is Telegram a messaging app you said? That's where I message back and forth. Yes. With someone, it's not to a bigger audience.

Alexander Likhtman (11:32):

Well basically, or initially it was a messaging app, but now it's converted more to, especially in this countries, it's converted more to an social media because in Telegram you have a functionality of group chats and channels and these channels they may have over a million subscribers per each. And the speed they distribute the content and the engagement some of them have is over overwhelming Instagram telegram in some of the countries, Facebook is considered in Kazakhstan more to be a business, social media and LinkedIn is picking up, but it is still very tiny here in all of the countries.

Doug Downs (12:25):

Got it. And the app formally known as Twitter, I think I'm supposed to call it X now, is Twitter X a factor?

Alexander Likhtman (12:36):

I think Twitter has up to maybe one or 200,000 users overall in all these countries. So it's nothing here.

Doug Downs (12:45):

Nothing. Okay. What about corporate social responsibility? Where do we see that play in particularly with communications efforts?

Alexander Likhtman (12:55):

A big thing here in these territories is women leadership. And I consider it as a part of the C S R thing. And I think it is because historically these countries and these cultures used to were quite patriarchic. You would call it

Doug Downs (13:20):

Male dominated males, male dominated, let's just say it. And too many men. Yep,

Alexander Likhtman (13:24):

Exactly. And now it seems to be changing, at least in the tech entrepreneurship and in tech industry and in some businesses. So women leadership is a big thing. Also the domestic violence, if I call it. Right?

Doug Downs (13:43):

Yes.

Alexander Likhtman (13:44):

So there is a big movement in all of these countries and it's supported by government and by some large organization, including world institutions like U B R D, like unesco, like USAID and so on and so forth. So it's becoming also a movement here, and this seems to be quite important.

Doug Downs (14:10):

Good. Do you see companies, if these are values that are growing and emerging in Central Asia, do you see companies positioning themselves to express that they share these values to their target audiences?

Alexander Likhtman (14:23):

International companies definitely do or try to do this. And some local organizations, including even government structures, they try to pick up the movement and to engage with them. I don't know if they are very truly believe in these values or are trying to catch up with the hype, right?

Doug Downs (14:45):

But

Alexander Likhtman (14:46):

The good thing is they seem to be picking up on this

Doug Downs (14:51):

Excellent government relations. I mentioned, let me circle back, freedom of the press, which countries enjoy freedom of the press and which countries, I don't know if it's a gray area or if it's not a grey area, which countries really don't enjoy freedom of the press. And then supplemental to that, I want to understand if government relations is a thing, particularly in those countries where, how are you influencing government? If it's a very top down structure?

Alexander Likhtman (15:22):

It's a tough question because the freedom of the press is, I would say, wouldn't say it is not presented at all. But it is something we are far away from the ideal here. So if freedom of the press, maybe Georgia and Armenia ahead of the region, because both in Kazakhstan, in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, major media are either state owned or semi-state owned. Right.

Doug Downs (16:01):

And

Alexander Likhtman (16:01):

It's not about, it's never about freedom of speech or freedom of media when you're owned by government and the government has some goals achi achieved with your help. So no, it's not a thing here.

Doug Downs (16:19):

So in the evening, if my habit is to watch television or even to scroll social media, actually, I will often see voices to the right telling. Let's say I have a government that's in that the right doesn't like, but the left likes the government of the day. I'll watch, I could watch Fox News and the voices on the right or condemning everything the government does. While the voice more on the left are saying if they're being critical of the current government, they're saying they're not going far enough to the left appeasing the right side. Would I see that if I were to sit and watch television or scroll social media in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, one idle Tuesday evening?

Alexander Likhtman (17:03):

I think that, well, I myself, I don't watch television first because I don't unfortunately speak any of the Turkish languages yet. There's a lot of Russian televisions which influences, and

Doug Downs (17:18):

It's all one voice. I'll bet it's the Russian television. The voice is pretty united.

Alexander Likhtman (17:22):

Yes, I think so. It's pretty much one voice, but if you're a local in any of these countries, you cannot be too critical on the government. So I would say you wouldn't find anything like Fox News here.

Doug Downs (17:40):

Understood, understood. Or M S N B C. If you're a fan of Fox, M S N B C is probably the other side of the spectrum. And what about in general, the cultural differences within these countries in Central Asia? What are those characteristics and how do they play into public relations and marketing?

Alexander Likhtman (18:00):

People here are very national oriented, but not in as xenophobic way. But they seem to value their national identities more and more every day, which is good. And this may be because they're splitting from the, let's say, empire and trying to find their own place in the world.

Doug Downs (18:25):

The Soviet Union, the old Soviet

Alexander Likhtman (18:27):

Union, yes. Yeah, the old Soviet still, Russia still has a huge influence on all of these countries. So speaking about national or cultural differences, I would say in average, people here are more friendly and more, let's call it polite, especially to strangers, not maybe to each other, but to strangers. So they're very, well, you will always find help in any of these countries, even if you don't speak any language. But the other side of this, you wouldn't hear no if you need something in business wise. So even if you agree on or trying to agree on something and the other side is not, does not agree with you, they could hardly say meaning yes, doesn't mean much or ah, could not mean much. So you have to be persistent even if you cut the deal or you seem that you cut the deal. You have to be persistent, you have to be polite. You have go circles around this. The counterparts, if I can say it, so it's like east, I think pretty much it's the same in Turkey. I think it's pretty much the same in the Arabic world. So, well it's east and you have to understand that it's not a west, in our perception and this influence a lot the public relation relations work. Because even if you agree, or even if you pitch the article to the journalist and he said, whoa, this is interesting. It may not mean anything.

Doug Downs (20:32):

Kind of like when people are buying stuff from you and say, oh, this is great. Yeah, I'll be back, I'll be in touch. And you never hear from them again. Right,

(20:40):

Right. Gotcha. Hard for me to do this interview without asking you about the conflict in Ukraine. I know your own personal sentiment is not with Russia, you fled Russia. Yeah. nuff said there are certainly people in Kazakhstan who do empathize with Russia in this conflict, I know it's a major influence on the culture, particularly as you move north in Kazakhstan geographically right, in closer proximity to Russia. I don't want to ask you about what you think of the conflict, but here's my specific question. How do you see the public relations battle going in this conflict? Volodimir Zelensky or Vladimir Putin, who's doing the better communications job? From a Kazakh perspective,

Alexander Likhtman (21:26):

I would say that they're both doing a great job according to their goals because the goal of Vladimir Putin is to influence the wide masses of, I don't know if it's right to call them average people, but not the high politicians, not middle class or upper middle class. He's trying to influence the white population and he's doing it right and his tone of voice is right. And he is a level of, I dunno how to say it in English, but the way he put words in the sentences and how he talks, it appeals pretty much to the audience. He, he's aiming, if I'm not wrong, about his goals. So he's doing a great job and this white population, and like you said, in North Kazakhstan, they catch it. And some of them, they agree with what he says or what he delivers. And if I am right, then Volodimir Zelensky is aiming to a totally different audience, which is like the politicians who could help him help with arms, needle, with ammo, with all this stuff. And he's doing the right jobs according to the goals. I guess he's he, he's having, so both of them are good. The way how Zelensky does his communication, I think the team of the PR people behind him is huge and is very efficient and professional. This is my personal understanding, but I think that behind the back of Vladimir Putin, he also has quite a professional team of PR people, psychologists or so, so sociologists. So they're doing great job, but my personal thing is I don't like the job one of them is doing.

Doug Downs (23:34):

Right. Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate your time. 10. It's morning for me, evening for you. We're 12 hours, apart. Other side of the world. Precisely. But thank you for this Alexander Rachment Siege. Did I say that correctly?

Alexander Likhtman (23:49):

Achmed. Achmed is. Okay.

Doug Downs (23:51):

Achmed, thank you for your time tonight.

Alexander Likhtman (23:54):

Thank you, Doug. Thank you for inviting me.

Doug Downs (23:57):

If you'd like to send a message to my guest, Alexander Lichtman, we have his email in show notes. Stories and strategies is a co-production of J G R communications, and Stories and Strategies, podcasts. You know what you could do to help us out, and it would really help leave a five star rating on Apple or Spotify. That means a lot to us. You could also share this episode with just one friend. Thanks for listening.